The spiritual practice of being held.

Strong leadership is born not from control, but from authentic community and the cultivation of people and teams. Nathan Hatch, former president of Wake Forest University and esteemed historian, joins Mark Labberton to reflect on the nature of transformative leadership. Drawing from his decades of experience at Notre Dame and Wake Forest—and from his new book, The Gift of Transformative Leaders—Hatch explores how leaders cultivate thriving institutions through humility, vision, and empowerment. Hatch shares his personal journey from growing up in a Presbyterian home to leading major universities, while reflecting on the comomunity, character, instincts, and freedom required for lasting institutional impact.
Mark Labberton hosts the Conversing podcast and is the Clifford L. Penner Presidential Chair Emeritus and Professor Emeritus of Preaching at Fuller Seminary.
Dr. Nathan O. Hatch is President Emeritus of Wake Forest University and one of America’s leading scholars of religion and higher education.
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